<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: So What if Smartphones are Expensive, at Least we have Choices and Subsidies [Opinion]</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.droid-life.com/2011/10/25/so-what-if-smartphones-are-expensive-at-least-we-have-choices-and-subsidies-opinion/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.droid-life.com/2011/10/25/so-what-if-smartphones-are-expensive-at-least-we-have-choices-and-subsidies-opinion/</link>
	<description>An intense Android news community bringing you the latest in phones, rooting, apps, and reviews.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 22 May 2013 06:22:00 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.5.1</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: Tyler Cameron</title>
		<link>http://www.droid-life.com/2011/10/25/so-what-if-smartphones-are-expensive-at-least-we-have-choices-and-subsidies-opinion/comment-page-1/#comment-1403797</link>
		<dc:creator>Tyler Cameron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Feb 2012 23:57:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.droid-life.com/?p=50441#comment-1403797</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Nothing stops you from buying another phone while in a contract. I went from OG Droid -&gt; Droid Incredible -&gt; Droid X -&gt; Thunderbolt -&gt; Rezound -&gt; Galaxy Nexus. I renewed for the Rezound/Nexus.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nothing stops you from buying another phone while in a contract. I went from OG Droid -&gt; Droid Incredible -&gt; Droid X -&gt; Thunderbolt -&gt; Rezound -&gt; Galaxy Nexus. I renewed for the Rezound/Nexus.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Genius</title>
		<link>http://www.droid-life.com/2011/10/25/so-what-if-smartphones-are-expensive-at-least-we-have-choices-and-subsidies-opinion/comment-page-1/#comment-882429</link>
		<dc:creator>Genius</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Oct 2011 22:29:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.droid-life.com/?p=50441#comment-882429</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m chill. My point was that compared to the cost of using the phone, the $300 contract price is a drop in the bucket compared to the $5000 I&#039;ll spend for 2 phones over the live of the 2 year contracts. ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m chill. My point was that compared to the cost of using the phone, the $300 contract price is a drop in the bucket compared to the $5000 I&#8217;ll spend for 2 phones over the live of the 2 year contracts. </p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.droid-life.com/2011/10/25/so-what-if-smartphones-are-expensive-at-least-we-have-choices-and-subsidies-opinion/comment-page-1/#comment-881016</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Oct 2011 16:53:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.droid-life.com/?p=50441#comment-881016</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Yes you are correct, carriers in the US have far more land to cover than your typical European country and thus have higher costs, however, the population of the US is also much larger.  The fact of the matter is that instead of unifying to create one large network like Europe did the US has chosen to build fractured networks utilizing different technologies which leads to higher costs, that combined with our drive for profit and satisfying shareholder demand leads to much higher prices for the US population to bare.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes you are correct, carriers in the US have far more land to cover than your typical European country and thus have higher costs, however, the population of the US is also much larger.  The fact of the matter is that instead of unifying to create one large network like Europe did the US has chosen to build fractured networks utilizing different technologies which leads to higher costs, that combined with our drive for profit and satisfying shareholder demand leads to much higher prices for the US population to bare.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: DismalScientist</title>
		<link>http://www.droid-life.com/2011/10/25/so-what-if-smartphones-are-expensive-at-least-we-have-choices-and-subsidies-opinion/comment-page-1/#comment-880827</link>
		<dc:creator>DismalScientist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Oct 2011 16:29:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.droid-life.com/?p=50441#comment-880827</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[But it isn&#039;t a free market. It&#039;s an oligopoly. And that&#039;s why there&#039;s so little price competition. Companies making money doesn&#039;t mean there&#039;s a free market. It&#039;s actually the opposite.

Outsize profits can only be achieved when there is something to constrain competition, in the long run. It may be natural, as in the case of oil where scarcity raises prices far above marginal cost of production, and even there, oil companies are pursuing increasingly costly, less profitable oil. It can also be the result of government regulation, eg patented products. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfect_competition#Profit . 

This is why when a market has several entrants, analysts will talk about the market being &quot;commoditized,&quot; i.e. there are no profits to be made. This has already happened to an extent in the mobile phone market - Moto, Nokia, Sony Ericsson and LG make no profits. Apple has a quarter of the market and two thirds of the profit. http://www.asymco.com/?s=profit+htc+sony&amp;submit=Go

Competition is the enemy of profits. That&#039;s why investors like Warren Buffet seek to invest in companies with strong, anticompetitive advantages that help profits stay above market. http://37signals.com/svn/posts/333-warren-buffett-on-castles-and-moatsLike I said, the prices are higher than they would be, in a competitive, free market. That you get $1000 of value from a $600 smartphone, or that you pay five times as much on your phone service is irrelevant. ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But it isn&#8217;t a free market. It&#8217;s an oligopoly. And that&#8217;s why there&#8217;s so little price competition. Companies making money doesn&#8217;t mean there&#8217;s a free market. It&#8217;s actually the opposite.</p>
<p>Outsize profits can only be achieved when there is something to constrain competition, in the long run. It may be natural, as in the case of oil where scarcity raises prices far above marginal cost of production, and even there, oil companies are pursuing increasingly costly, less profitable oil. It can also be the result of government regulation, eg patented products. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfect_competition#Profit . </p>
<p>This is why when a market has several entrants, analysts will talk about the market being &#8220;commoditized,&#8221; i.e. there are no profits to be made. This has already happened to an extent in the mobile phone market &#8211; Moto, Nokia, Sony Ericsson and LG make no profits. Apple has a quarter of the market and two thirds of the profit. http://www.asymco.com/?s=profit+htc+sony&amp;submit=Go</p>
<p>Competition is the enemy of profits. That&#8217;s why investors like Warren Buffet seek to invest in companies with strong, anticompetitive advantages that help profits stay above market. http://37signals.com/svn/posts/333-warren-buffett-on-castles-and-moatsLike I said, the prices are higher than they would be, in a competitive, free market. That you get $1000 of value from a $600 smartphone, or that you pay five times as much on your phone service is irrelevant. </p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.droid-life.com/2011/10/25/so-what-if-smartphones-are-expensive-at-least-we-have-choices-and-subsidies-opinion/comment-page-1/#comment-880803</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Oct 2011 16:13:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.droid-life.com/?p=50441#comment-880803</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[But it&#039;s also foolish to think that the individual components don&#039;t have the R&amp;D costs built into those.  True, there is an R&amp;D cost, but I think it&#039;s less than what you&#039;d think as it&#039;s absorbed in the cost of the materials.

There&#039;s a &quot;wrap&quot; cost to develop and put it all together?  Even so, it&#039;s likely to be a lot less, especially when spread over a ton of devices.  It&#039;s a cost that actually drops the more an item sells.

Intel pours billions into R&amp;D and except for their premium chips that they don&#039;t make many of anyway, they still have a 50% margin on their chips even including R&amp;D.  I don&#039;t buy that the R&amp;D and assembly costs are nearly as much as the cost of the parts themselves.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But it&#8217;s also foolish to think that the individual components don&#8217;t have the R&amp;D costs built into those.  True, there is an R&amp;D cost, but I think it&#8217;s less than what you&#8217;d think as it&#8217;s absorbed in the cost of the materials.</p>
<p>There&#8217;s a &#8220;wrap&#8221; cost to develop and put it all together?  Even so, it&#8217;s likely to be a lot less, especially when spread over a ton of devices.  It&#8217;s a cost that actually drops the more an item sells.</p>
<p>Intel pours billions into R&amp;D and except for their premium chips that they don&#8217;t make many of anyway, they still have a 50% margin on their chips even including R&amp;D.  I don&#8217;t buy that the R&amp;D and assembly costs are nearly as much as the cost of the parts themselves.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.droid-life.com/2011/10/25/so-what-if-smartphones-are-expensive-at-least-we-have-choices-and-subsidies-opinion/comment-page-1/#comment-880662</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Oct 2011 15:52:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.droid-life.com/?p=50441#comment-880662</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[If I didn&#039;t mis-read, One2Free (a Hong Kong wireless carrier) offers a 3900 minutes voice plan with unlimited 4G LTE for HK$267 (or about $35 here) with no contract.

This may not be a really good example and you can tell me that everything is cheaper in China. But $35 couldn&#039;t even get you onto a basic voice plan on VZW. Think about that.
]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If I didn&#8217;t mis-read, One2Free (a Hong Kong wireless carrier) offers a 3900 minutes voice plan with unlimited 4G LTE for HK$267 (or about $35 here) with no contract.</p>
<p>This may not be a really good example and you can tell me that everything is cheaper in China. But $35 couldn&#8217;t even get you onto a basic voice plan on VZW. Think about that.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Ytram</title>
		<link>http://www.droid-life.com/2011/10/25/so-what-if-smartphones-are-expensive-at-least-we-have-choices-and-subsidies-opinion/comment-page-1/#comment-880630</link>
		<dc:creator>Ytram</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Oct 2011 15:35:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.droid-life.com/?p=50441#comment-880630</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[So that article comes up with $150 just for the materials.  Here&#039;s some useful information:  materials is not the only cost involved in producing a device.

And I&#039;m not denying that cell phone manufacturers aren&#039;t putting some decent markup on phones, but to prop up a $199 tablet that will be subsidized by content providers is the wrong way to prove it.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So that article comes up with $150 just for the materials.  Here&#8217;s some useful information:  materials is not the only cost involved in producing a device.</p>
<p>And I&#8217;m not denying that cell phone manufacturers aren&#8217;t putting some decent markup on phones, but to prop up a $199 tablet that will be subsidized by content providers is the wrong way to prove it.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Steve Perry</title>
		<link>http://www.droid-life.com/2011/10/25/so-what-if-smartphones-are-expensive-at-least-we-have-choices-and-subsidies-opinion/comment-page-2/#comment-880474</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Perry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Oct 2011 15:04:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.droid-life.com/?p=50441#comment-880474</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[#whitegirlproblems]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#whitegirlproblems</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Kamaron Rianda</title>
		<link>http://www.droid-life.com/2011/10/25/so-what-if-smartphones-are-expensive-at-least-we-have-choices-and-subsidies-opinion/comment-page-1/#comment-880362</link>
		<dc:creator>Kamaron Rianda</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Oct 2011 14:20:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.droid-life.com/?p=50441#comment-880362</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[some of those same countries are still on pre 3g data speeds as well, these networks cost billions to develop in the US and the customer does see that reflected in their bills.

Just as you see in any other product and service there is mark up for finished products.

Yea I could pay $30 dollars for a Filet Mignon at a restaurant but I could also make that same filet for 10 at home. You are paying for Chef and the Waiters as well as the overhead of the restaurant when you buy that Filet, (Im sure I couldve came up with a better example but no one really cares anyway)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>some of those same countries are still on pre 3g data speeds as well, these networks cost billions to develop in the US and the customer does see that reflected in their bills.</p>
<p>Just as you see in any other product and service there is mark up for finished products.</p>
<p>Yea I could pay $30 dollars for a Filet Mignon at a restaurant but I could also make that same filet for 10 at home. You are paying for Chef and the Waiters as well as the overhead of the restaurant when you buy that Filet, (Im sure I couldve came up with a better example but no one really cares anyway)</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Lgreg64</title>
		<link>http://www.droid-life.com/2011/10/25/so-what-if-smartphones-are-expensive-at-least-we-have-choices-and-subsidies-opinion/comment-page-2/#comment-880176</link>
		<dc:creator>Lgreg64</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Oct 2011 13:43:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.droid-life.com/?p=50441#comment-880176</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The only thing I wonder about is how come tablets are getting cheaper but phone are going up in cost?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The only thing I wonder about is how come tablets are getting cheaper but phone are going up in cost?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Rich</title>
		<link>http://www.droid-life.com/2011/10/25/so-what-if-smartphones-are-expensive-at-least-we-have-choices-and-subsidies-opinion/comment-page-2/#comment-879993</link>
		<dc:creator>Rich</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Oct 2011 13:31:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.droid-life.com/?p=50441#comment-879993</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[All smoke and mirrors... They always charge more because when they come down in price, they say your getting a discount or they are helping us...

Point is if something cost 1 dollar to make and you charge 600 dollars, then drop it to 300 and say its a sale or a deal or wtf ever it is... this is still crap... there should be a law that says you can&#039;t mark up a product but 10% of manufacturing cost... ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>All smoke and mirrors&#8230; They always charge more because when they come down in price, they say your getting a discount or they are helping us&#8230;</p>
<p>Point is if something cost 1 dollar to make and you charge 600 dollars, then drop it to 300 and say its a sale or a deal or wtf ever it is&#8230; this is still crap&#8230; there should be a law that says you can&#8217;t mark up a product but 10% of manufacturing cost&#8230; </p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.droid-life.com/2011/10/25/so-what-if-smartphones-are-expensive-at-least-we-have-choices-and-subsidies-opinion/comment-page-2/#comment-879832</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Oct 2011 12:49:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.droid-life.com/?p=50441#comment-879832</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[This is a confusing subject.  There are so many conflicting viewpoints, but most everyone makes valid arguments.

At full retail, the carrier is losing money (assuming you buy a phone and then leave the company a month later).  The consumer loses very little (assuming they sell their month-old, pristine phone for close to full retail.)  So by this reasoning, you would think the wireless companies would be practically giving phones away, just to get the contract.  The contract is worth over $2,000 (someone in the comments did the math).  They should be subsidizing phones for very little.  Maybe the cost of an activation fee and tax.  No more than $100 for ANY phone.  You are &quot;renting&quot; the device for two-years (or a better description would be &quot;pay-to-own&quot;), and it&#039;s definitely like those &quot;Rent-A-Center&quot; scams... you&#039;re paying a 200% mark-up because you are making payments over two-years.  Your computer that is usually $600 at Best Buy will eventually cost you $2000 (at $20 a week or whatever....)  Both ideas pray on people who want what they want when they want it (and don&#039;t have the means/dedication to save up).  This is how you have so many people with smartphones who can barely afford the data plan; they don&#039;t have two pennies to rub together, but they got a subsidized phone for cheap.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is a confusing subject.  There are so many conflicting viewpoints, but most everyone makes valid arguments.</p>
<p>At full retail, the carrier is losing money (assuming you buy a phone and then leave the company a month later).  The consumer loses very little (assuming they sell their month-old, pristine phone for close to full retail.)  So by this reasoning, you would think the wireless companies would be practically giving phones away, just to get the contract.  The contract is worth over $2,000 (someone in the comments did the math).  They should be subsidizing phones for very little.  Maybe the cost of an activation fee and tax.  No more than $100 for ANY phone.  You are &#8220;renting&#8221; the device for two-years (or a better description would be &#8220;pay-to-own&#8221;), and it&#8217;s definitely like those &#8220;Rent-A-Center&#8221; scams&#8230; you&#8217;re paying a 200% mark-up because you are making payments over two-years.  Your computer that is usually $600 at Best Buy will eventually cost you $2000 (at $20 a week or whatever&#8230;.)  Both ideas pray on people who want what they want when they want it (and don&#8217;t have the means/dedication to save up).  This is how you have so many people with smartphones who can barely afford the data plan; they don&#8217;t have two pennies to rub together, but they got a subsidized phone for cheap.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.droid-life.com/2011/10/25/so-what-if-smartphones-are-expensive-at-least-we-have-choices-and-subsidies-opinion/comment-page-2/#comment-879831</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Oct 2011 12:48:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.droid-life.com/?p=50441#comment-879831</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Subsidies serve a purpose. Subsidies are a perk to verizon contract customers. Regardless of whether you are on contract or month to month, the service costs exactly the same. The subsidy is a discount to those who sign the contract. I see a subsidy as a perfectly legitimate business tool. Verizon gets a guaranteed customer and the customer gets a discount on a phone.

Do you really think that there would ever be one unified cellular network? These companies have spent millions if not a few billions of dollars on their respective networks. A unified network would decrease competition.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Subsidies serve a purpose. Subsidies are a perk to verizon contract customers. Regardless of whether you are on contract or month to month, the service costs exactly the same. The subsidy is a discount to those who sign the contract. I see a subsidy as a perfectly legitimate business tool. Verizon gets a guaranteed customer and the customer gets a discount on a phone.</p>
<p>Do you really think that there would ever be one unified cellular network? These companies have spent millions if not a few billions of dollars on their respective networks. A unified network would decrease competition.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.droid-life.com/2011/10/25/so-what-if-smartphones-are-expensive-at-least-we-have-choices-and-subsidies-opinion/comment-page-2/#comment-879829</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Oct 2011 12:42:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.droid-life.com/?p=50441#comment-879829</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[A subsidy in this case means that Verizon is covering a portion of the price of the phone at purchase, not during the life of the contract, so you wouldn&#039;t see anything on your bill.

If a phone costs $640 and the with contract price is $300, that means Verizon is subsidizing $340 of the price of the phone.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A subsidy in this case means that Verizon is covering a portion of the price of the phone at purchase, not during the life of the contract, so you wouldn&#8217;t see anything on your bill.</p>
<p>If a phone costs $640 and the with contract price is $300, that means Verizon is subsidizing $340 of the price of the phone.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.droid-life.com/2011/10/25/so-what-if-smartphones-are-expensive-at-least-we-have-choices-and-subsidies-opinion/comment-page-2/#comment-879693</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Oct 2011 11:58:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.droid-life.com/?p=50441#comment-879693</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[If the phones are subsidized, has anyone seen an amount for it on their bill?  And once the two year contract is up, has anyone seen their bill automatically drop by some amount?


Just curious.  Cause I&#039;ve never seen it itemized on my bill before. 



]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If the phones are subsidized, has anyone seen an amount for it on their bill?  And once the two year contract is up, has anyone seen their bill automatically drop by some amount?</p>
<p>Just curious.  Cause I&#8217;ve never seen it itemized on my bill before. </p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>

<!-- Performance optimized by W3 Total Cache. Learn more: http://www.w3-edge.com/wordpress-plugins/

Page Caching using apc
Database Caching 8/42 queries in 0.057 seconds using apc
Object Caching 661/705 objects using apc

 Served from: www.droid-life.com @ 2013-05-21 23:25:29 by W3 Total Cache -->