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  • They should have made it clear however its nothing new. I learnt this through XDA for Z Ultra GPe device that unlocking bootloader causes lose of DRM keys for x reality and other stuff. Pretty lame. Worse when you have a GPe device.

  • Lol this is funny. Oh no Sony lost 100 potential customers out of millions because you guys just had to tinker with your phones.

  • thats so interesting! that must explain why the cameras are so bad on all nexus phones!

    /s

  • I love modifying and having full control over my phone, but from what I’ve seen, I’d be willing to give Sony’s offerings a try without modifications. I’m on Verizon though, so thats a whole different story lol.

  • Glad I already had 0 interest in a Sony phone, so no lost sale here. But I’ll further make sure to push people away from Sony devices even more then before now.

  • If it came out on Verizon I’d still buy it, there are ways to get around things like this, in that, Sony could just release their camera app on the Play Store so you could install it on any ROM 😉

  • I’m pretty sure before you unlock there is a way to back up the keys so you can get it back. At least that’s how it is on the original Z. Been like this since the Z so whoever made the tutorial to unlock bootloader for this either forgot to include some warnings or the person unlocking didn’t read.
    I remember lots and lots of warning when unlocking the Z on both Sony site and XdA

  • Sony is famous for propietary and restricted technology…betamax, minidisc, and atrac to name just a few. They create something cool and then lock it down so tight you can’t go beyond what they think you should do…this is exactly why Sony is no longer the be all, end all company they once were. They have created some great tech that has faded into history because of this tactic. This move with the phones sounds like Sony just being Sony to me.

  • It’s been this way for years, and it’s the same on other oems as well. What the hell are people complaining about? If you want to unlock your bootloader to install a custom rom, you’re not going to be using any of those proprietary Sony features anyway. If you just want to root, wait a bit longer, the phone has only been out a week.

    • Not for people in the U.S. But I guess people have just been importing. I’m waiting for the Z3 on T-Mobile, if it’s too big then I’ll probably consider importing the Z3c.

    • The issue is locking up the camera with DRM. There are many other ways to keep proprietary features, e.g. lock it to the IMEI or a hardware firmware but they chose not to. Rooting will only keep the kernel.

  • I can live without an unlock bootloader and custom recovery…but i cant live without root. Looks like the only way to root this phone is to unlock it…which then breaks everything. Im glad i did not buy this phone yet…was considering it today.

    • So what phone are you going to buy now?? The Moto X with its subpar battery life?? Just to be able to unlock and root it??

      • well im actually testing out the iphone 6 right now which gets awesome battery life actually. i already had the lg g3 (liked it but a little to big) before it and the nexus 5 before that. If the new nexus is only coming in a 6″ flavor then i may just end up back on the nexus 5. Nexus 5 with android L should get much better battery life. Sound good?

        • Yeah that’s cool. Nexus 5 is a beast of a phone. I would never touch an iPhone. I don’t just don’t like them. A few of my friends have the 6 though. They like it. I would probably still have my Nexus 5 if I didn’t have signal issues. If the N5 had T-Mobile’s wifi calling I would have kept it.

  • Is it really only 16GB onboard? I understand that it has microSD expansion but I was under the impression that feature isn’t getting much support app wise. which some apps (like games) can take a large part of the onboard memory now. Or does Sony have a feature to enable app2SD (which I believe Samsung and/or CM have that feature)? I am new to this area of android… so maybe I am incorrect on this assumption.

  • I’m not so certain that it was done to dissuade unlocking… Everything I’ve read lately (mostly on this site) has made it sound like they are developer friendly.

    There are a lot of people and different small teams involved in a project like this, and it was likely an oversight. And mostly I’m making excuses because I’d like another option for my yearly smart phone purchase.

    Moto, you lost me with your battery life. Maybe the MAXX…

  • This doesn’t bother me at all. I’ve stopped rooting and flashing after a few months with my G2. If the stock experience is nice there’s really no need for me to unlock the bootloader. I’m still planning on getting the Z3, unless the Z3c comes to T-Mobile too.

  • Wow. Buzzkill major. Was waiting to see if the Xperia Z3 was coming to AT&T, but that sucks.

    Although, pretty sure the DRM key partition has gotten burned when you bootloader unlocked any of the Xperia phones, so this shouldn’t be something shocking.

  • Am I missing something here? Can’t a user just root the device if they want to stick with the Sony ROM and use all those features, plus most of the rooted features they way? It’s a little bit of a pain, but you have some options here. You could unlock the bootloader if you want an AOSP ROM, or you could just root the phone and use the Sony/Provider ROMs.

    • There is currently no way to root this phone WITHOUT unlocking the bootloader. From my understanding, there is no way to back up the TA partition that holds the DRM keys that the camera functions use (and all other apps that use DRM) unless the phone is rooted (this partition is wiped from the phone when you unlock the bootloader), so until someone figures out an exploit to root without unlocking the bootloader, it’s a catch 22.

  • This is why I developed a hate for any of Sony’s “smart” devices. I have had 2 great “dumb” Sony stereo systems, but ever since they started trying to push their own dumb proprietary formats like ATRAC3 and a dozen forms of Memory Stick when the rest of the world had already adopted SD, it has been all down hill.

    • True. Sony should realize they were no longer the godzilla they used to be. They are just like any monkey now.

  • Not that it matters terribly anyway. Most that are going to bootloader unlock are going to switch to AOSP which kills all the factory camera software anyway. It makes sense that the DRM protected content on the audio/video side is lost but it does surprise me that the factory ROM would lose some camera functionality via a bootloader unlock…

  • I think if you are using a free open sourced software to run your phone (and make you money), your software you put along with it should also follow the same ethos.

    • Nope, not really, it’s a matter of choice…

      Not defending Sony, the suck… but if you want to put their apps they should have some protection, otherwise you’ll get ‘Nokia Here’ all over again, they could have done that without destroying the freaking system… but hell it’s Sony… they suck

      • Yes, yes really, it is a matter of choice… Sony has the choice to make Windows phones and not Android phones.

        Google needs to step down on the necks of their manufacturers instead of letting them introduce filth into the ecosystem. If you want to make android phones, make them with the same open goal in mind.

        • Lmao! Sony doesn’t have a choice! Windows phone is a bet and they are losing enough money in Android, they are not betting on a market that owns less than them…

          Google could (and maybe should) be on the necks of the OEMs but they almost got screwed by Samsung (a little more than almost actually) and WebOS is back on the scene, it’s not really a great moment.

          PS: Android by google is not an open goal design, AOSP is, but Android+Gapps is no longer open and Google does keep it closed too, it just doesn’t block the apps once you unlock the bootloader

      • Apparently…

        They pretty much knocked it out of the park with everything on this phone then they pull this crap…

        • What crap? People unlock the bootloader so they can install custom roms, custom roms aren’t using Sony’s camera anyway. What’s everyone complaining about?

  • Putting DRM on camera software? What is this freaking world coming to? I’ll stick with open-source software, please.

    • Lol, good camera software has always had DRM. It is some of the most protected software in the industry.

    • Eh, its just special coding they want to protect from being ripped out and put into things like cyanogenmod. i get it. sucks but i get it.

    • I think that this is fair if the algorithms are licensed from 3rd parties if Sony doesn’t own those algorithms.
      It isn’t stated but i’m going to assume it is somewhere along the line.

      Sony has always been great to the dev community, not everything from Google is open source as well.

      • Well not even Samsung does that sh*t and they have pretty good cameras (blocking the functionalities when the bootloader gets unlocked)

          • Unlocking the bootloader is not the same as putting an unsupported custom ROM on the phone. Its the first step to doing so, but its all still Sony made software on there. Nothing breaks except what they decide to break.

      • If they did would that stop you from buying this amazing phone?? Everyone is praising this phone, but now because things break after unlocking it everyone seems to be making a stink.

      • No, the REAL shame is that there are no more high-end Android phones under 5″. This was pretty much it.

    • If manufacturers are going to pull this bs, they need to make the removal of their skin an option. When are they going to realize that some people prefer a stock experience over their bloated skin.

    • I’m confused as to why this is such a big deal. Whenever a phone has a good camera, doesn’t changing the rom always affect the camera? A lot of HTC phones are like that too.

  • i think this has been that way since the z1. once root is achieved the partition that is deleted when the bootloader is unlocked can be backup up, then it should be safe to unlock the bootloader.

      • I agree 100%. I just can’t do it now. I understand completely locking down. But if you leave it unloackable, don’t punish the user like this. Why not just lock it up? I do tinker in kernels and AOSP builds. I’ll pass it up and stick with my G3 until next round I guess.

        • The only thing sony makes these days that i want is a PS4. No thanks on their tv’s and other stuff now, they have been surpassed.

      • It’s a great phone period. The phone looks great, and the battery life will school anything out there in it’s class. Throw in a micro SD slot (which is absent in the Galaxy Alpha and obviously the iPhone), and there isn’t a better phone at this screen size. Also toss in a great camera and an outstanding audio processor and it’s a big win.

        Well….if you don’t want to unlock your bootloader….

  • Honestly, I haven’t rooted/unlocked a device in a while. I used to be that guy changing roms daily, just got tired of it. My Nexus 5 isn’t rooted, or my OnePlus. So when I get this badboy ( or the normal sized z3… it’s a tough choice) . . . I won’t have to worry about this.

    • Right, with a Nexus 5 and a OnePlus there isn’t a big need to unlock and flash other OSes. When you go back to a skinned version of Android and it takes them forever to updated your phone, such as with a Sony Z3 series…my guess is you’re eventually going to change your tune.

      • The main reason I got a pure moto X. I dont feel like messing with my phone much and honestly dont have the time. I want updates within a couple weeks of release and you get that with a pure X

        • I was going to do the same until I saw the battery life on the new Moto X. I’ve gotten used to my 3000mah LG G2 and can’t go back to mediocre battery life. However, if the battery life was better then I would be totally on board. I honestly love everything about the Moto X save for the battery.

          • Meh……..I am averaging 24 hours so far according the GSAM app. That’s fine for me. I have seen no issues with it to be honest but everyone has different needs.

          • Problem with 24 hours is that you can’t get enough juice when you need to have a long day and that sucks, besides the battery will degrade as time passes so you’ll get 15-16 hours after a year

          • Again……everyone has different needs. And I dunno where you get your battery degradation facts from but the one year thing is no longer true is most cases. Look at iPhones for example, since the 4 came out they last 3-4 years and dont see much in the way of degraded performance.

            I am NEVER far from a charger, ever.

          • and that’s ok, for you, you have the possibility to charge everyday, I do too, but SOMETIMES my needs force me to have a 2 day period where I just can’t get charge cuz I can’t just stop for 2 hours to charge the device until I get home and I don’t get that life with the old X and the new one has a similar battery performance, 2 day charge is enough for me unless they can give me the turbo charger

          • On the rare occasion that I have to worry about not having an outlet near or my car, i have a 6000mah 2 amp charger that is the size of a 4 inch screen.

          • Well that does seems like enough but I would like for a device to give me enough just to not have to run for a charge… I’m not complaining about the X, I truly love the device and I was desperatly locking up my wallet for the 2014’s X, but the battery concerns me deeply since right now is just barely enough to get me through a long day (and it’s not enough for a long day+party all night) (I may get a battery case for it tho, but I haven’t fount anything that doesn’t want to make me break it on the spot)

          • I’ve had bad luck with those, I only found in one store and there were 3 problems:
            -Huge price for the functionality
            -Looked like crap
            -Flashy colors like light blue or red (not really for my taste if isn’t at least italic red which is more sober)

            PS: I even looked in china

          • I agree that 24 hours isn’t enough for me. I like to travel and do outdoor activities. Neither are very conducive to finding an AC outlet.

            However, I think 24 to 16 hours of battery life change in just one year is a bit of an exaggeration. =)

          • It’s a major exaggeration. I have NEVER seen a device of mine degrade that badly and i’ve had a ton of devices. Maybe after 3 years yes.

          • I had ~30 hours of use when I bought my X, now (a year later) I have ~20-24… I think it’s accurate enough (or maybe Kitkat sucks at managing resources)

          • There are many many many KNOWS battery issues with kitkat. Why do you think they are concentrating on battery so much with L?

          • I know, that’s why battery mAh IS something relevant for now, L may be almost here but at least the reports I’ve seen don’t actually point out L to be THAT MUCH more effective than KitKat at the battery department, I mean yeah it’s better but not by much and it’s even less impressive if you’re already using ART (which I am)

          • Dunno what to tell ya, but fact of the matter is that the majority of people out there only need to get through a day or even just a work day on a charge. They wanted to keep the form factor and make the phone thin so battery had to suffer. What was majorly important to me was getting rid of my S4 ASAP and getting something with near stock and quick updates. Dont really care for battery and camera.

          • I don’t care about the camera either (that’s why I got the X, camera is not a huge deal to me and if you know about photography you can take decent photos messing with exposure with the right app), and I get that the phone last through the day normally and that works for most, but to be honest the fact I have to turn airplane mode on every single time I go to party pisses me off, I would like an extra day, heck I would settle for half a day… if you look at the Z3 Compact the device is thinner and the battery is bigger, I just think that Moto didn’t do the effort in that department (the only other big complain is the SD slot but you get by with 32gb)

            If they would had ported a 2600mAh battery I was in for the device without even blinking just because I love what they did last year and this was an overall better product than last year’s, but considering battery is the only struggle I occationally have with the device, I don’t see the reason to port (but tbh I would if I had a S4, everyone I know that has it see big drops of performance as time passes and TW is a huge drag)

        • Except you’re just guessing you will… I loved the phone and to me is the best phone of the year but I’m skipping this gen until moto gets a hold of a decent battery size

          • guessing? Moto has STATED that both the 2013 dev editions and 2014 pure edition will get updates within a couple weeks of release. There is no question.

          • I have the “pure” version (developer edition) from last year and my device was literally the LAST device to get 4.4.4, it was maybe a non relevant update but they aren’t always going to update it first because the developer teams work on different devices beside the X, and that’s why the unlocked version of the dev edition got held up so much to 4.4.4 (cuz they were updating the G, E and Droids)

          • and did you read and understand why? Did you look in the moto forums? Motorola was under the impression that going to L from 4.4.3 was going to be easier. Then google said the security updates of 4.4.4 were more important and they issued the update. There was logic there, not neglect.

          • I did not read that part, but that was logic to skip an update and L is not that near either, besides 4.4.4 had really important security fixes and what’s more important it improved battery life so there is neglect there either way. That’s not my point tho, the update schedule WILL affect the update process if L has the number of updates KitKat had… let’s face it, if there was just 4.4 the X was the best device around, but on the subsequent updates they falled short even if they were much better than the competition (which is completely understandable considering they were basically the only brand updating the low tier devices), but either way you’ll most likely get the updates fast, but that won’t necessarily be the case if there is more updates when they are working on updating another device.

            I would obviously love to get my hands on a Pure 2014 X tho, just not going to spend the cash considering I still have an awesome device, but coming from what happened with the “last pure” I’m just telling you that sometimes updates aren’t as fast as advertised

      • I mean I don’t mind. I’l always have a nexus on hand and I just sell other phones after a few months anyway. But Skins have gotten to a point where they don’t annoy me. HTC for example with Sense 6, I actually prefer it over stock… though I don’t really keep devices long enough to care about updates…. I guess I don’t count as a normal user

        • Sounds like you went from flashing different roms to just buying different phones =)
          Its kind of the same just one uses more money than the other.

          • lol. Good Point. Not too bad though because selling a phone within 6 months you can get most of your money back

          • I could even get more than what I spent with my X (it’s dev edition and that doesn’t come to my country), but in my country the prices are too high to match (I bought my X on the US and I can’t this year)… I envy you man :/

    • I don’t ROM or even heavily customize, but I MUST HAVE Ti Backup or I won’t even consider a phone. There are a few other things I use as well.

      It has been so sweet not even having to reroot through 3 OTAs on my Moto X Dev Edition.

      • What can you do with TI that you can’t do with MyBackup Pro (or Mybackup Root) . . . I’ve been using it for years.

        • I have never actually tried it, but right from their description:
          NOTE: Data/setting of applications can only be supported if you have a rooted phone, or if the application integrates with us.

          It is rather pointless on an unrooted device if it can’t backup the data of applications without root.
          I already own Ti and have it configured to automatically backup my phone and tablet to Box ever other night.

          • Good point. I haven’t been backing up application data since I havne’t been rooting lately. All I usually feel like I need are SMS/MMS everything else I’ll just get automatically on my new device like contacts/apps (without data) and Chrome bookmars/data saved in the cloud.

      • Im not going to say its a great camera, but honestly its not bad either. I have a DSLR and a very nice point n shoot that fits in a pocket nicely if i want serious pictures. Camera was not something of heavy consideration for me personally. But I can tell you that its seriously not bad.

        • Yea I’m just doing some early morning trolling lol never mind me. I’m not an insane camera phone person either, as long as it works good enough.

        • A flagship phone camera should never be “not that bad” or “good enough”. People here want to “love” the Moto X so much they will accept things that they bash other manufacturers for. No sd card slot, poor battery life, non-removeable battery. average camera at best. I mean, come on. Any one of these is a negative. Combine them all and you can hardly call the Moto X a flagship.

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