More Reading

Post navigation

133 Comments

  • Would you have said “Ok Google” in your car or would it have been “Ok Tesla”?

  • As we all know now, Tesla is doing just fine on its own, with showrooms popping up in shopping malls all across the country. In fact, the company is nearing release of a reportedly $35,000-priced vehicle, which is said to be Elon Musk’s priority with Tesla. He wants us all driving electric vehicles, which seems cool enough to me, especially when the US government will pay you handsomely to go electric.

    Tesla is by no means “doing just fine on its own.”

    David Stockman put Tesla’s business in perspective:

    “Telsa would still need upwards of $50 billion of sales at Toyota profit rates and valuation multiples to justify last September’s peak market cap… Tesla’ CY 2014 sales totaled $3.2 billion, meaning that you would need to bet on a 16X gain in sales over the next few years and that today’s rag tag start-up manufacturing operation could achieve levels of efficiency, quality and reliability that it has taken Toyota 60 years to perfect. ”

    “Since 2007 it has booked cumulative sales of just $6.1 billion…(which) amounts to about one week of sales by Toyota and two weeks by Ford. Its cumulative bottom line has been a net loss of $1.4 billion, and the losses are not shrinking—-having totaled nearly $300 million for 2014 alone.”

    “More significantly, during its entire seven years as a public filer, Tesla has failed to generate any net operating cash flow (OCF) at all, and has, in fact, posted red ink of $500 million on the OCF line.”

    Please stop parroting the “Tesla-is-awesome” nonsense.

    • Trying to compare a company that ships and sells 55,000 cars a year to one of the biggest car manufacturers in the entire world seems pretty damn stupid… The two can’t really be used in comparison to each other, its idiotic and its a play on statistics.

      • I don’t know much about the automobile business itself but i don’t see what is wrong with what velocipedes said if it is true. I believe he is simply
        trying to show how difficult it was for Toyota to come out profitable so essentially it is going to be a real struggle for Tesla. Considering (correct me if i am wrong) Tesla’s models are more expensive to build than Toyota’s. So higher cost with lower profits (according to what velocipedes said) means more difficult/longer path to success when comparing to a company like Toyota who is doing well. I don’t think anyone really wants Tesla to fail but i think its success maybe over-exaggerated.

      • Two car companies can’t be compared to each other?

        They sure as hell can, especially when we’re talking about 4,600 pounds of sheet metal, plastic, rubber and glass equipped with an electric battery power pack that has been around for decades. As if Toyota or Ford or Kia couldn’t do the same thing? If it was profitable, they would be doing it. It’s not, as Tesla is proving.

    • Lol ok so you want a $30k gas car vs a $30k electric car which charges for free for life, is far safer, way more fun to drive, and needs zero oil changes or smog checks, made in the USA.

  • I love Tesla Motors and Elon Musk. I had the opportunity to drive a Model S P85D and it was so different than anything I’ve ever been in or driven. It may seem like a lot of money, but the luxury and craftsmanship present in the car was astounding. The car almost felt like a phone at points, with built in free 3G and firmware updates that change the efficiency and operations of the car.

    Anyways, I foresee Android Auto appearing on that giant 17″ touchscreen sometime soon, if not definitely in their Model 3, the $35k car. I can’t wait to see what Elon and the company accomplish in the next 10 years.

  • I have been thinking about buying tesla but if google have bought tesla it would have been instant buy for me

    • In terms of sales numbers for businesses? Many many years ago… If it was $6 billion in profits that’d be a completely different story =)

  • While I love the idea of electric cars and getting ourselves off of fossil fuels in general, what I also love is the twit’s that think they are saving the environment by driving one; where do they think that electricity comes from to power them? Fantasy land?

    With that said, would love to have one; but at $70k starting that’s a bit steep.

    • Whats more efficient at converting that into energy. the small combustion engine or a large energy plant.

    • The ability to change the energy source at the Macro level than the micro level is the first step…

    • electricity is not just produced by fossil fuel just an FYI.
      even with fossil fuel emission on electric car is 30% less compared to combustion engine.

      that 30% might be small but it does make a difference

      • Yea, its primarily produced by burning COAL.

        My point was, as “going in the right direction” as this may be, it’s still not a solution.

        • I really don’t think you understand what a solution is. Yes, roughly 40% of the United States electricity is from burning coal, but there are many different ways to create electricity. For powering cars, it is petroleum or electricity. The idea is to have more electric cars because of the many ways we know how to make electricity. There is no all heavenly solution to eradicate fossil fuels and natural gas.

          • Jump off the high horse buddy…maybe you’re just trying to have a conversation but you’re coming off as a condescending prick and I don’t appreciate it.

            Check your tones when posting online (I’ll give you a hint: “I don’t think you understand … ” is not a productive way to reply to someone; unless you’re tying to troll them and piss them off).

          • I’m just trying to get you to appreciate “going in the right direction” a little more.

          • And I’m just trying help you be a bit less of a condescending hostile prick online 😐

          • Why so serious? Mcdonsco you really shouldn’t ever take online comments personally, you’ll live a happier life that way =)

    • It’s much more efficient to create a lot of energy at a single source (power plant) rather than a little energy at a lot of sources (engines).

      The energy source of a an EV can also change. Your city can add wind and solar energy that would then power your car, but a gas engine will only ever be able to burn gas.

  • And in other news I am so happy I have adblock! 24 ads blocked & ghostery shows 16 🙂 yay me

  • It’s good they didn’t sell Tesla. Google Play Services Battery drain would be even more devastating in a car.

  • I am kind of glad Google didn’t buy them then, because if things had not worked out a company as big as Google in other areas may just have axed Tesla at some point. But now they are a bit more established I’d actually quite like it to happen – so long as Musk stayed on as lead. Google’s investment could really speed things up and they’d be great in terms of pushing new technologies (improvements to self driving capabilities is one example).

    • I’m all for finding new/better/renewable energy, but nothing should be subsidized by the “government.”

      • You know there are literally hundreds of things that are subsidized by the government, college educations, agriculture, and many more essential things. While I agree that certain things should succeed/fail by their own merit, there is a place for government intervention.

        • Being opposed to government funding of a thing is not the same as being opposed to the very existence of the thing.

          Whether or not there is a place for government funding of a thing is a matter of values and principles. Those who favor government have, on average, weaker arguments and very few principles that they aren’t willing to sacrifice for whatever expedient measure they support. Those arguments just happen to hold sway with the low-information masses.

          • if by “low information masses” you mean “college educated” then sure.
            I am so sick of people that only care about ideology

          • Low information as in low information voters who vote Democrat. It’s a millennial thing.

          • Increasingly, “college educated” is becoming the new GED. Educated individuals are no less susceptible to ideological bias than anyone else.

            The myth that the only method of providing for certain goods and services is through the application of government is not new.

            “Socialism, like the ancient ideas from which it springs, confuses the distinction between government and society. As a result of this, every time we object to a thing being done by government, the socialists conclude that we object to its being done at all. We disapprove of state education. Then the socialists say that we are opposed to any education. We object to a state religion. Then the socialists say that we want no religion at all. We object to a state-enforced equality. Then they say that we are against equality. And so on, and so on. It is as if the socialists were to accuse us of not wanting persons to eat because we do not want the state to raise grain.”
            ― Frédéric Bastiat, The Law

        • Agriculture, It’s why Monsanto paid ZERO in Taxes and actually receives $6 Billion in Tax Payer Money for a refund, EVERY YEAR

        • Yes, the military and tarrif collection per the original intent of the founding fathers. Unless you know something Hamilton et al didn’t.

        • They are not subsidized by the government, they are subsidized by taxpayers. The government should not be in the business of picking winners and losers. However they are great at picking losers.

      • What about armies should we just hope that a group of people get together by luck or something and somehow defend the country? Or do you think everyone should have a gun and defend what he calls his own spot. Without government you would not even have boundaries around your land.

    • I never understood why people are so high on this guy. I think all of his “major” projects had to be propped up majorly by the government.

        • I will concede PayPal, they are financially stable. I have never heard of Zip2 so I would not consider them a “major” project. Hyper loop is an idea not a financial entity so it is not possible to consider it a financial success, which is what I am talking about here.

          The other examples you provided all operated/ are operating in negative margins. Solar city sued the federal government for MORE subsidies. Tesla received a $500 million federal loan (which I will admit has been payed off) they still only survive because of subsidies, but that is a different conversation. SpaceX lives off of federal money through NASA. It’s not like they have a product the public can buy.

          Does they guy have good ideas? Yeah. Never denied that. Is he a genious that is running super successful companies? No.

          • Because SpaceX sells to the government doesn’t mean the government is propping them up. Solarcity is the #1 solar company in the US, how are they being propped up by the government? By propped up do you mean the money back from the state and federal government as tax credits for buying the products? I think the government is trying to help people to get off the use of coal and gas by offering this incentive.

          • You never acknowledged the fact they all relied on government money at one point or another, but I guess we can agree to disagree. I started talking about the high praise for a man who has mainly relied on government funds and or subsidies to survive. Your arguments have been non-sequitors to this point.

          • So has the gas auto industry, the power industry and the financial industry, so I agree I don’t see your point.

          • His point is that if you have to rely on the coerced confiscation of wealth from others to survive in the market, maybe you aren’t actually generating anything of value, and probably you shouldn’t still be in business.

            And yes, that goes for all the other industries in which corporate entities feed at the trough of government.

          • Because SpaceX sells to the government doesn’t mean the government is propping them up.

            That’s actually precisely what it means. The same applies to defense contractors.

            I think the government is trying to help people to get off the use of coal and gas by offering this incentive.

            Government is not “helping” society by forcing taxpayers to subsidize the expensive energy production demands of the wealthy. Coal and gas are cheap. There’s no reason for the government to price them out of the market, leaving only the expensive options available for consumption. When it does that, it disenfranchises the most vulnerable and marginal of society.

          • he get subsidies because he uses technology which are environment friendly like solar electricity and electric cars.

            I have never ever see a good electric car before tesla. and subsidies doesnt mean he is propped up by government.

            its the same as we getting tax benifits for buying electric car.

          • How are electric cars environmentally friendly when in many locations 80% or more of the electricity is generated from coal-fired power plants. That would make the Tesla a coal-powered car.

          • The pollution gas emitted in producing electricity is still lower than using gas to run the vehicle. its 30% lower. that 30% is not much but it does make a difference

      • Does the federal government have a balance sheet? Do they have expenses? Incomes? If they are not receiving income from a company like tesla…. Where is the money coming from to pay their bills? (not to mention the federal government has been running a deficit since tesla existed)

      • You know someone eventually has to pay for that credit right? Eventually, the tax payer will foot the bill for that credit.

        • If we were forced to pay off the national debt tomorrow, every American would owe $150,000. Of Course if corporations paid their fare share there would be no debt, Every company of the top Fortune 500, pays little to no taxes.

  • Thank GOD that didn’t. Happen. Knowing Google nothing would have been on sale at this point… I trust Musk to deliver.

    • They would have announced it.

      Then it would have some minor but annoying thing like the radio volume would only go up unless you turn the car off. Or if the battery drained to zero you have to send it back to get it fixed.

      Then it would go 3 years without an update. Then be updated from 1.1 to 1.0.0.1 having none of the bugs fixed

      Then another product called TULSA would be announced that would be a separate car but do nearly the exact same thing.

      then both products would have been touted as the next big thing at Google IO.

      …then 6 months later be discontinued.

    • Don’t worry you’ll have it by September, that’s the Verizon promise.

        • I have a Turbo, and I have to say that I’m happier they’re waiting on 5.1, instead of having 5.1 in February, then waiting another 4-6 months for 5.1 (or more likely a 5.2 or something). However, if the testers don’t hear something by the end of April, it will start to get annoying. (On the other hand, I honestly don’t really love the changes to power buttons and notifications in L, so the wait isn’t awful. Worst part is that every time I restart, due to ART, it takes forever. I won’t miss that.)

          • I tried to switch to ART with the Turbo, because everyone was saying that ART was so much smoother and faster than Dalvic. But…I experienced the “updating apps” glitch that every time I booted the device it acted like it had to convert the apps from Dalvic to ART again. This happened every time, and I checked on the forums where they said that it was a known problem but hadn’t been fixed yet. I have been waiting on Lollipop and will be doing a factory reset, then I will see if the ART conversion will work.

    • < This has revealed step-by-step how to follow this diet to see these amazing results. He has laid out every food you need to include in your diet, and when you need to eat them. The diet is incredibly simple to follow, with very little effort involved. If you are looking to lose weight fast, This is definitely something you should consider. This FREE Report may help you also

      ▬▬▬▬▬☛ ▬▬▬▬▬☛<SEE MORE INFO HREE

      ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬

  • I’d be curious to see real world number on how much charging this car raises your monthly electric bill.

    • You can charge it at the grocery stores and some parking garages have charging stations also, I heard it’s pretty cheap

    • $90 increase in the monthly bill the first full month, and it got the hell driven out of it. (We’re talking around 3000 miles)

      Hey – it’s an amazingly fun car to drive and it really only totaled around 100 miles or so a day (never worried about running out of juice). I honestly thought it would be higher for that month.

      • How many kilo watts needed to charge from low to high charge. I would guess about 120 for a 85 kw battery. At 10 cents a kw/hr that would be about $12.00 for a tank of electrical gas. or about what 4 gallons of gas would be today. I guess I could get easily about 200+ miles with my car, but there isn’t a higher gas mileage car on the planet.

        • If Tesla puts out an affordable and sporty version, I would be all over it. Charging at the house would be very economical because I have solar power that not only covers the normal use every month, but creates enough extra that I get a check back most of the time. With geothermal heating and AC, my place is very efficient for a house that was not initially built to be “green”. I would love to see a performance coupe with awesome specs from Tesla, so long as it is comparable to gas powered cars.

    • if you spend around $45 (current gas price) on gas then this would cost around $10

  • Sad news, the Federal Government may give you a break for owning an electric car, however State Governments are either already taxing you or thinking of taxing you in an effort to get money for road repairs.

    However with that said, if I was given a Tesla P85D & equipment for charging it, I’d likely never own a gas vehicle again.

    • It’s a valid argument from the states. One of the major funding sources for DOT projects is the gas tax. I have no issue with electric cars being taxed to offset the lack of a gas tax. They add wear and tear to roadways just as much as their gasoline counterparts.

      • True, I need to reword mine a bit, if the benefits you get from the Feds are overshadowed by local government it’s sad panda day, however if it’s a 100% wash on rebate vs new tax I’d be happy with that.

        Different solution that could help offset the tax collection — at every rest stop / ride share lot they should put charging stations which are taxed directly with the money going directly to road repair funds… Anyone who lives/drives here in Michigan will know how badly we need road/bridge work.

        • By far, the credit/incentive should outweigh the tax to offset the lack of gas tax. Let’s say the average driver is driving 12,000mi/yr, averaging 30mpg. That’s 400 gallons of gas per year. In California, where the gas taxes are among the highest in the country at $0.66/gal (combining federal and state), you’re looking at $264/year in gas taxes paid out. If everyone started driving an electric car, it would gut the budget for road and bridge repair. That $264 would still be much less than what you would save in gasoline vs plugging in.

    • As they damn well should be. In typical fashion, our idiotic, myopic government ignored the consequences of their decision. It’s a bit more complex than that (isn’t it always?), but in basic terms, these clowns have been harping on vehicle efficiency increases with little regard for the back side of such a change.

      … and then to add insult to injury, they’re giving out free money to those who buy the vehicles that are already most egregiously contributing to the erosion of the USHTF. There are a couple kinds of tax credits, and this is about the worst in that sense. It’s not like a tax abatement where a business challenges a municipality to call their bluff on a site selection, with the city ultimately winning the business with something along the lines of a tax freeze. That results in additional tax revenue that they wouldn’t have otherwise had (assuming the business wasn’t bluffing and would have located elsewhere), but in a reduced amount as compared to the local peers. This electric car credit, though… that’s just lost money. There’s no middle ground or called bluff or anything like that.

      I like the idea you offered below, but I think it’s going to have to be more forced than that. I think a lot of these electric car owners (Leaf/Volt more so than Tesla, probably) look at this whole thing as an elaborate game to find ways to be as cheap as possible. I don’t know the answer, but I know they need to something. It won’t fix the electric car chasm, but bumping the federal tax rate on a gallon- and indexing it to inflation- would be a fantastic place to start. I’m generally conservative on taxes, but this is one tax it’s long past time to sack up and make right. Infrastructure in this country is at a critical point. The timing isn’t going to get any better. Hit the people while times are (comparatively) good- low gas prices being the biggest factor.

  • Anyone in the DL community have a Tesla or ride in one? I have considered but have no desire to spend $70K on one.

    • If i ever won the lottery, it would be the first and probably only vehicle i’d buy. Fully loaded for $125k or so.

    • I always see a crap ton of them here in Seattle, never driven or rode in one though

    • The initial price is kind of misleading. 1) electricity is cheaper than gas, at the current price, and especially when it jumps back to $4/gallon. For 15000 miles, you’ll probably spend around $600 on electricity. Also, there’s plenty of free charging stations so that could go down. 2) the electric motor needs minimum maintenance, and you won’t need $$ for things like oil changes, spark plugs, etc. The savings here ads up. 3) Tesla will buy back the car from you for something like 40% of the original price when the 8 year battery life is up, no questions asked. In the end, depending on the model, you’ll be paying around $600-800/month for your Tesla over a 5 year period. This isn’t bad.

      • “$600-800/month for your Tesla over a 5 year period.”

        I hate to be the bad guy, but that is two student loan payments right there…that price is very misleading, especially when I can buy a Lexus or Acura or half the cost each month.

      • Then all those car commercials that advertise $269/mo financing are just giving them away.

    • Save the planet. Reduce your footprint. Feel good about yourself. Great! That’ll be $70k please. When the price has normalized they will sell better but for now the alternative is a mid-range super car… and if you can afford a car like that you don’t even give a damn about fuel economy.

      • The price won’t normalize on those cars, what their strategy has been is to sell luxury first and then bring the technology down market. That’s what they’re trying to do with the 35K car.

  • Glad Elon didn’t cash in for the quick buck. There’s a distinct possibility that Google with contract with Tesla for manufacturing of their autonomous vehicles, so Elon stands to gain more than the 6bn in the long haul.

    • There’s a better chance Tesla’s bubble will burst, and they will exit the market (unless they get more government bailouts, of course).

      There’s a better chance Google will sell its tech to one or more of the more established auto companies.

  • I read that Pushbullet totally wrong, I thought it said “Elon Musk sold Tesla to Google for $6 Billion” I was like Oly is!

Comments are closed.

Related Posts

back to top